In this interview, Rachel Solis sits down with Gary D. Soto, a nationally recognized professional development expert, recipient of the National Educator Award for Reshaping American Education, co-author of Crimes Against Learning: Solving the Serial Failure of School Reform, and honoree of a Lifetime Achievement Award for contributions to human rights advancement.
Gary discusses his passion for literacy and his drive to help create school cultures that promote student achievement. He emphasizes the importance of serving all students, regardless of their grade level, stressing that our society’s future hangs in the balance if we continue to leave our older students behind.
Read on to hear Gary share his insights on the importance of holistic educational approaches and the urgent need to support learners at every stage of development.
Gary, please introduce yourself! Tell us a little about yourself and your work.
I’ve been an educator for 50 years and have served as an elementary teacher, administrator, and secondary principal. Now, as the founder and CEO of Gary D. Soto Consulting, Inc., it’s my privilege to help superintendents, district administrators, school principals, and teacher leaders create conditions and collective efficacy cultures that increase student achievement.
You have held many different roles and worked in a variety of settings. How did your career as an educator begin?
Going way back to the beginning, I worked in an elementary school setting as an instructional aide and then became a kindergarten and first-grade teacher.
Then, I transitioned to a secondary school setting. There, through a lot of work, professional learning, and great belief in our students, we were able to accelerate learning significantly.
By our fifth or sixth year of high performance, we caught the attention of the State Department of California. They provided funding that enabled our school to become a staff development center for hundreds and hundreds of teachers.
Along the way, I was fortunate enough to receive some national recognition that propelled me into more public speaking and advocacy work. This eventually led me to start consulting with schools and districts in more than 40 states.
This eventually led me to start consulting with schools and districts in more than 40 states.
Since then I have been working with superintendents, cabinet members, and district personnel to create actionable plans that focus on improvements in explicit, systematic instruction. It is very rewarding work.
Collaborative Classroom is a mission-driven organization. Your sense of mission clearly drives your work. Please share your “why” for the work you do.
My “why” has always been to better the lives of our children and therefore better their future whether that is bettering their future in elementary, bettering their future in high school, or college—and not necessarily college but for life and career.
The fact that California has one of the lowest literacy rate of any state is appalling. Most American students are capable of learning how to read and capable of being proficient in reading, and yet that number is now something like 35 percent so that is a compelling “why.”
I do have a new sense of hope because of the research about literacy learning and the brain. That has been so inspiring.
There is always the question of research to practice. How do we take this knowledge and bring it into implementation?
And yet there is always the question of research to practice. How do we take this knowledge and bring it into implementation? I want to be a part of this wave of implementation and instruction that is very strategic and will actually accelerate the professional rates of students in all districts.
Gary, thanks for sharing your heart! I feel like we will BOTH never retire because of that. We always have more work to do. I call it “the heart work.” That synergy brought you and I together! We are lifers, Gary.
As a former upper-grade reading interventionist myself, I now want to make sure I help all teachers. It’s my way of giving back to those students I couldn’t reach because I just didn’t know how. Now I feel it’s my moral obligation to spread the work and provide the support.
As a former upper-grade reading interventionist myself, I now want to make sure I help all teachers. It’s my way of giving back to those students I couldn’t reach because I just didn’t know how.
What are some common themes, challenges, or patterns that you are observing in your work to advance literacy? How do you see that playing out as it relates to the “haves and the have-nots.”
How much time do you have? Here are several trends and common challenges that come to mind.
First, although there is talk about the urgent need to improve learning for all students, I have seen too many districts and schools choose to focus efforts and resources only on strengthening their Tier 1 interventions.
While there is a huge need to improve our supports for Tier 1, we must not do so at the expense of vital interventions for Tier 2 and Tier 3 students. We have the responsibility of providing key MTSS interventions for ALL students.
While there is a huge need to improve our supports for Tier 1, we must not do so at the expense of vital interventions for Tier 2 and Tier 3 students. We have the responsibility of providing key MTSS interventions for ALL students. With the state of California’s alarmingly high rates of students not reading at proficiency, it’s not enough to solely address Tier 1.
The fact is that we have a high number of non-decoders in middle and high school. That is a very large and concerning obstacle. When efforts are made to focus only on Tier 1, there is an obvious inequity at the Tier 3 level for those students who have been left behind.
Pair this with the fact that many are still trying to understand what the science of reading is.
Recently, Louisa Moats said something to the effect of, “We emphasize so much of what we should be teaching, but we fail to recognize that the research of the brain also indicates how we should deliver it. And that is systematic, explicit instruction.”
Louisa Moats, Anita Archer, and the other gurus of direct instruction believe there should be a beautiful marriage between the science of teaching, direct instruction, and the science of reading which encompass the five core components of literacy.
Agreed. At Collaborative Classroom we stand firmly in the belief that “how we teach matters as much as what we teach.” It’s the partnership between using a research evidence-based curriculum along with professional learning that provides us teachers with a strong system of support to reach every student.
Another big “miss” out there is the misinterpretation of what MTSS is.
Along with this misunderstanding, what I see all of the time is special education being on a different pathway than the entire district which doesn’t make sense. When speaking to special education teachers, we find that we have an over-identification issue. We are in a real bind out there!
Program implementation must also be the same for regular education and special education. We may increase the intensity and supports depending on needs.
Special education should not be in its own silo in which they do their own thing. Quality instruction in which educators understand the reason and rationale for their instruction being delivered in a particular way is a need. The content and skills of WHAT we teach must be joined in marriage with HOW we deliver our instruction.
Systematic, explicit instruction (science of teaching) must also be at the center of our efforts alongside the work of implementing the science of reading.
In teacher prep colleges and universities (along with school districts), we are starting to see a hopeful trend of professional development based in the science of reading.
When we speak to the tiers of instruction, the intensity must increase to meet students’ needs.
When we speak to the tiers of instruction, the intensity must increase to meet students’ needs.
There will always be those who need intensification. But right now we have a high number of students who are simply qualifying for special education because the needs of quality structured literacy instruction and phonics are not being met.
When we look at the research (science of reading), we see this kind of instruction is universally beneficial. It is harmless to all, helpful for many, and essential for some.
This shared understanding underscores my commitment. There is just so much misunderstanding. There’s a huge need around coming alongside districts to build out an aligned system of support that ensures alignment across the tiers both with research evidence-based curriculum and with the professional learning across time to support quality instruction of it.
Right now we have a high number of students who are simply qualifying for special education because the needs of quality structured literacy instruction and phonics are not being met.
The research, however, has been clear for many years and in fact decades. We know what to do if we are serious about increasing reading proficiency for all of our students.
We also know what does not work. Implementing these proven methods is a matter of social justice—it ensures that every student receives explicit and effective reading instruction.
True! I was one of those teachers you speak of and did not feel equipped nor were my teacher courses dedicated to this kind of instruction. I believe it’s why I started teaching upper grades. It didn’t take long for me to see my students were missing those early reading skills. They had gaps in their ability to read fluently enough to make sense of and comprehend text—to feel the joy of reading was impossible. I think that’s when my crusade began.
As you point out, the needs do not stop at second grade. Hopefully we have fewer students with those early foundational skills needs. But only addressing lower grades at Tier 1 is not fixing a very real problem. We can’t leave secondary out of the equation. We all suffer. I think we are seeing that impact play out in our society in various ways. We have many striving readers in secondary, and I think about that a lot as I’m supporting secondary with SIPPS®. What a wonderful feeling to have a solution!
It’s interesting to see how our work is aligned—and the SIPPS program has been a particular point of connection. How did you first learn about SIPPS?
In 2000, the State Department of Education in California began to take things seriously. The national reading panel came out, and it indicated that the whole language approach showed absolutely no results.
There was a very powerful president of the CA State Board of Education that decided to take matters into her own hands. She wanted elementary educators to focus efforts on foundational skills instruction. That started a very targeted evidence-based approach. Part of that focus was to identify programs that align with the state’s focus.
And again, many people really don’t seem to understand what it means to be aligned and support Tier 2 and Tier 3 so that was where I first became aware of SIPPS, and I recognized how it supported the needs in Tier 2 and 3.
California identified SIPPS for their schools’ Tier 3 intensive intervention programs that would accelerate learning. Since then, SIPPS has been on a very short list of comprehensive programs that I recommend.
What do you appreciate about SIPPS? And what do the literacy leaders you work with appreciate about SIPPS?
What I hear attracts a lot of people is that SIPPS has multiple levels to address precisely where any student’s needs are. The lesson structure is all there, leaving little to guess for students, which is very important for fragile readers.
It’s supportive to students but also to teachers. There’s not a lot of planning out of lessons. It’s all there for them.
Regardless of where a teacher’s expertise lies, the program supports them so they can target all students’ needs and do it in an appropriate, effective, evidence-based manner.
I appreciate that the creators of SIPPS understood phonology and the distinguishing features of phonemes, which is so important because certain speech sounds can be easily confused with other speech sounds. SIPPS instruction teaches children how to distinguish these sounds without confusing them with too much information.
Not to be underemphasized is the explicit and systematic nature of delivery in SIPPS. Regardless of where a teacher’s expertise lies, the program supports them so they can target all students’ needs and do it in an appropriate, effective, evidence-based manner.
I appreciate the fact the SIPPS Plus was developed for older students and can serve middle and high school. This is a huge need.
What comes into question with big schools is there’s a very large number of students, sometimes 600 candidates not reading at proficiency and approximately 400 that qualify for SIPPS intervention. By design, they are really looking at the high numbers and trying to be creative in how they deliver this small-group instruction.
We know SIPPS accelerates learning. We are looking at how we can make it fit into a comprehensive master schedule. There’s some creativity coming into play. It’s not a matter of if they need it, it’s about how we go about it during the day and who it is that will be delivering it.
Absolutely! As I too work with districts making an impact, I see a huge push on thinking outside the box. Leveraging extra time in the day and/or human capital that can assist in the work.
The beauty of SIPPS is that it can literally be taught by anyone who is willing to follow the lesson. In fact, sometimes we have seen the best results from paraprofessionals because they rely on following it as it’s written. They won’t change up the lesson structure. We’ve seen math teachers teaching SIPPS, and there’s a touching story where a student came to the math teacher saying he can’t read. That teacher took it upon himself to work with this student using SIPPS. It changed the student’s life! This truly is an “all hands on deck” effort.
With our older students, there is work before the work. The relationship between the students and teachers is absolutely at the heart of the work. Those students, once they see the teacher isn’t giving up, and that SIPPS is working for them, they stay in the program! The relationship has a bit of initial building and mending. Students may have been let down in the past but once they get to a mastery test and feel the success, both teacher and students are in it for the long haul. It’s why SIPPS in secondary education means so much to me! The teachers are literally changing the trajectory of a student’s life.
You support many literacy leaders in secondary schools. What are some considerations for leading literacy change in grades 6–12, especially for leaders who are just launching this work?
Unfortunately for many secondary schools the obstacle is the master schedule. The master schedule is what drives what happens and what is offered to students. This is not getting us anywhere! We should determine the students’ needs and then develop the master schedule.
The reality is we have too many secondary schools hesitant to implement Tier 2 and Tier 3 interventions because they do not want to disrupt their master schedules.
It’s an obstacle. But the reality is we have too many secondary schools hesitant to implement Tier 2 and Tier 3 interventions because they do not want to disrupt their master schedules.
If we truly are committed to equity of services for all students, we must do everything we can to invert the current status of our MTSS pyramid. Transformation is about significantly reducing the number of identified Tier 2 and Tier 3 students.
The other issue is it seems all the emphasis is on K–5 so now we have all of these struggling readers in secondary and, to be frank, many educators aren’t quite sure how to serve them. Those that are doing something about it are struggling with how to get them to the level of proficiency.
The beauty of SIPPS Plus is that it accelerates. There isn’t a lot out there that serves this very real need and it does it in a respectful, laser focused, and accelerative way.
What specifically is key about SIPPS Plus for secondary schools that are engaged in this work?
What I think Plus has done is makes it relevant and respectful to the secondary students.
It also supports teachers with the kind of instruction that typically wasn’t part of their pre-service courses, which will thankfully be changing with the new legislature.
The relevancy is also part of the allure that gets educators and students interested. Both can feel successful with SIPPS. It supports them in going through all of the steps in a lesson aligned to the science of reading and helps them to crack that code. It’s a win all around!
Yeah, what I loved so much when I taught it was that it provided me with the scaffolds my students needed. There were small increments of success every step of the way. There is no room for failure. This is key for our older striving readers who have become disenfranchised and disengaged because nothing before has worked. That feeling of success along each step of the way is motivating! Success leads to motivation; motivation leads to engagement. It’s very reciprocal.
Yes, and let us not forget the teachers and how they feel. Many are battered and bruised, working tirelessly and using something that isn’t moving the needle. That’s discouraging.
But when teachers are implementing SIPPS, the positive results they get back from the assessments are of utmost importance. Teachers also start feeling good about themselves. Just like their students, they have that heightened moment of realization and think, “Oh my God, I can succeed for the first time and after all these years?!”
That is a huge win! We often talk about how successful it might be for students, but this is a really important feature to highlight in why SIPPS is the key to success. Teachers also need to feel successful.
As you look at the California literacy landscape, what excites you? What makes you hopeful for the future?
No doubt we have the answers! For 40 years we’ve been swimming around with a whole language approach this whole crutches of three queuing.
It used to be: let’s find a bunch of willing teachers that are going to be passionate and be sensitive to the needs of struggling learners. While that is still important, it’s just not enough. Now that we know more, we can do something about it!
The struggle is how do we convince people, and I think data will continue to drive those conversations.
We’re having a lot of successes in many states. The reason we’re having success in those states is they’re very prescriptive. What works is very prescriptive and that’s why they get the results. More and more will be illuminated, and we’re going to be celebrating many more successes which is what drives me in terms of the hope out there.
If we can’t name it, we can’t treat it. It’s been named so let’s march on and continue treating.
I think about the Mississippi Miracle many of us have been following. We have great data, but if nothing else can we all please just celebrate the Mississippi Marathon. Side note: they’re pushing for us to stop using the word “miracle” and change it to “marathon” because they say there’s no miracle. It was a lot of hard work and determination. I agree. The data is talking, and we are listening and doing something about it!
I like to attach myself to change agents, Gary, and you my friend are one of them. Thank you for sharing your voice, your heart, and your good work with us at Collaborative Classroom.
Related Resources
10 Minute Clip: Dr. Jennifer McMahon on the Urgent Need to Support Older Readers
The Polysyllabic/Morphemic Stage: A Lost Treasure
Texas Spotlight: How Harlingen CISD Uses SIPPS with Striving Readers in Grades 6–12
Get SIPPS Sample Lessons
Download lessons, text excerpts, placement assessments, and the SIPPS brochure.
About Gary D. Soto
Gary is a nationally recognized speaker and professional development coach for educators and administrators who provides an instructional, service-based approach to transform models that foster student success. Gary’s vision is that all students and educational professionals can and will improve with the right investment, learning environment and tools.
As the founder of Gary D. Soto Consulting, Inc., Gary provides intensive coaching and training that personally and professionally empowers educational leaders. Gary is the recipient of the National Educator Award for Reshaping American Education, co-author of Crimes Against Learning: Solving the Serial Failure of School Reform, and was honored with a Lifetime Achievement Award for contributions to human rights advancement.